Neurodiversity in the Workplace: The Role of Reasonable Adjustments

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I loved hearing about different lived
experiences from Tom and from Demet.

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Both brought a completely
different viewpoint across,

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so really fascinating to hear.

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I wholeheartedly recommend it.

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11 out of 10 or 100 out of 10.

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I think they give you really practical
takeaways and an opportunity to

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network with other people in
this field in a safe environment.

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This was really well-thought
through. Brilliant speakers.

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People really need
to check this stuff out.

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OK. Hello, everybody.

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Thank you all for joining us and
welcome to another Skill Session online.

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Yeah, welcome, welcome. Let
us know where you’re tuning in from.

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Say “Hi” in the chat. I can see
it’s all heating up already.

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So that’s fantastic.

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So, yeah. Welcome to
another Skill Sessions event.

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This is an event series both online
and in-person hosted by CareScribe.

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It’s designed to share knowledge about
areas of neurodiversity and disability

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and help to build and
foster an inclusive community

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for these sorts of
topics to be discussed.

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Each event is based
on a different topic.

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We’re very excited today to have
Helen Eaton talking to us about

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autism and neurodiversity,
and that is her sort of specialism.

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So lovely to see so many of you here.

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As I say, get
active on the chat.

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Let us know where
you’re joining from,

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what the weather’s
like, all that sort of stuff.

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I’m imagining wet and
windy. But yeah, let’s see.

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Also just to mention change
your Zoom chat settings to “All”

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so everybody can see.

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Otherwise you’re just messaging us
as participants — sorry as panellists.

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So yeah, make sure you
change your Zoom chat settings.

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And yeah, we encourage everybody to
keep posting and messaging and talking.

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throughout today’s
session because that’s

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what these Skill
Sessions are all about.

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Great. So, yeah. Just
while we’re all joining,

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I’m just going to spend
a couple of minutes —

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tell you a little bit
about CareScribe,

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and then I’ll hand
over to Helen.

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So as I mentioned, Skill
Sessions is run by CareScribe.

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And who are we?

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So my name’s Rich. I’m one of the
founders and directors of CareScribe.

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For those of you who
haven’t heard of us before,

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we are a assistive technology
business based out of Bristol.

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Myself and the other two founders,
Chris and Tom, we’re all neurodivergent

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as are many of our team.

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And as a company, we
spend every day working

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to support disabled and
neurodivergent individuals

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essentially to study and
work more independently.

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And we do that by
building technology.

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Our software tools, which you
may have heard of before,

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are Caption.Ed and TalkType.

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“What are they?” I hear you ask.

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So let me tell you a
little bit about them.

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So Caption.Ed is a captioning
and note-taking software

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designed to help people
to better comprehend

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and retain some of the
huge amounts of information

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that are thrown at
us in our busy lives.

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This is of course a tremendous
value to those with a wide range of

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disabilities and
neurdivergent profiles —

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from those maybe who are
deaf or have hearing loss,

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who may have difficulty comprehending
exactly what’s being said,

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to those like me who are
dyslexic have ADHD, ASD,

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who may have similar difficulties
or find it hard to retain information

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and focus on information.

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Even those who maybe have
motor impairments, who find it

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hard to get information down
quickly in a timely manner.

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So that’s Caption.Ed,
all about captioning

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and comprehending
and retaining information.

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And then we’ve got TalkType, which
is a piece of dictation software,

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which is essentially designed to
help people convert thoughts to text,

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something that a wide
range of people find very

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difficult for a wide range
of reasons, myself included.

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If you want to know anything about
any of our software or our company,

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then feel free to pop
something in the chat.

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And we’ll get back to you

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or you can find more information
on the website at carescribe.io.

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Other things just to mention again.
We’ve still got people joining.

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Lots and lots of people
joining, which is fantastic.

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It’s just a small bit
of housekeeping. So

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you may well be familiar
with Zoom by now.

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But if you’re not, captions
are available through Zoom,

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so you can turn those
on at your leisure.

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Questions — keep the chat going.

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If you’ve got specific
questions for myself or Helen,

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then please pop them
in the Q&A section.

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It’s a slightly separate section to the chat
that you should find in the bottom menu.

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But if you pop them in
the Q&A section, we’ll have

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some dedicated time at
the end to answer them.

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If you spot questions that other
people have written and you want to

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you want to ask them as well,
then upvote those questions

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and we’ll try and prioritise them
when we go through them at the end.

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There are no wrong
questions. This is a safe place.

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So please, please ask any
questions you might have.

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You’ll be glad to know
this session is recorded.

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So look out for an email from
CareScribe, with the recording.

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And it’ll also be on
LinkedIn tomorrow.

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We will also email
out Helen’s slide deck

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along with the recording and any
resources following the webinar.

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So all of that will be coming
to you. So look out for that.

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And the only other
thing to mention

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is that we run these
sessions every single month.

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And we have a fantastic
speakers, like Helen.

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We’ve already got our kind of next
session, our May session, lined up.

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And we’ve got Danielle
Cudjoe-Michalski who’s joining us,

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who’s the founder of
Thinking Light Coach.

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And she’s a certified coach,
consultant, and Tedx speaker.

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And she’s going to be joining us and

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talking about how she’s sort
of navigated her neurodiversity

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in the — in a corporate space.

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Great. So without further ado, I’m
going to hand over now to Helen.

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So Helen is an Autism
and neurodiversity specialist

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with over 20 years of years
of experience in designing and

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delivering leadership and
communication skills training.

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Helen combines her lived
experience with her understanding of

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neurodivergent strengths and
challenges and relevant case studies.

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And she’s going to talk to
us about all of this today

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under the bracket of, kind
of, reasonable adjustments.

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So, Helen, over to you.

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Thank you so much.

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And thank you for
inviting me to talk today.

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This is always my favourite
thing to talk about so

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I am, as Rich said, Helen Eaton.

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And I’ve got quite a lot
of experience in this area.

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When I deliver these talks,
these training sessions,

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I always want to justify why I
get to talk about this, really.

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So if I briefly say — actually,
it’s gone up to 25 years plus.

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I was counting today, thinking
about my age and realising: yep.

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It’s 25 years’ worth of
experience now — fantastic.

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Something to celebrate maybe.

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But lots of experience
working in the

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arena of neurodiversity
in particular.

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That’s just some of
the work I’ve done.

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But maybe the most
important things to say

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are that this is about
lived experience.

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My whole household, my family
of five, we’re all neurodivergent —

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different kind of stuff
going on with all of us,

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which makes it an interesting
house to say the least:

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lively and fun and some
challenges along the way.

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And my free time is spent
working alongside and with and

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supporting neurodivergent
people, particularly autistic people.

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So from little
ones in early years,

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through to teenagers,
through to adults.

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So I kind of live and
breathe this stuff.

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My world is neurodiversity
and the neurodivergent people.

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In terms of today’s
session, we’re going to look a

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little bit about the language
around neurodiversity and

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reasonable adjustments, just
to kind of set a frame for us all.

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I’ll briefly summarise
neurodiversity and

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there’s some kind
of disclaimers to that.

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We just have a short amount of time
relative to the subject together.

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But I’ll kind of get us
all to a level point if I can.

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Absolutely, we’ll focus on the
equality act and reasonable adjustments

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and a couple of case studies
to make this relevant as well.

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In terms of questions
— we will try and get

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some time at the end to
answer those questions.

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There may be lots
and lots, which is good

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because I really want
to get you thinking.

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And this is the sort
of a starting point

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or a sort of a refresher
for some of you

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in terms of understanding neurodiversity
and the neurodivergent and

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reasonable adjustments and the
duty around reasonable adjustments.

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I hope you go away and start thinking,
Wow, what can I do differently?

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And as you go through the
session if you have a thought about,

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“I can see a change I can make here,”
please do share that in the chat.

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Always appreciated.

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So neurodiversity —

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it is a movement.

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It’s a recognition of
diverse minds in the world.

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I always say neurodivergent
people are absolutely everywhere

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and have been so forever.

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It’s just really now that we’re kind
of recognising these differences.

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We have sort of medical
labels as it were for them, and a

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greater understanding of the diverse mix of
minds that we’re kind of working in living with.

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So we have neurodivergent
minds, neurodivergent people.

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So those minds have
diverted perhaps from

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a typical or majority
developmental path

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and the neurotypical.

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I’m not going to use the
word “normal” here at all.

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That’s not relevant anywhere —

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but that notion of neurotypical, so
typical neurological development.

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And the term neurodivergent groups
together people with different conditions,

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and I talk about six main
conditions today.

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And these impact how
an individual processes

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and experiences the
world around them.

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There are lots of things that
make us different from each other.

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In terms of neurodiversity,
we have a sort of a majority

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collection of people whose brains
are kind of processing and ticking

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along in different ways.

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But we can see
commonalities between those

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ways of thinking and
those ways of processing,

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which kind of helps us
to group them together.

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And neurodivergent people are in
absolutely every workplace, really.

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If you’ve got more than a
couple of people in your team,

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yeah, there’s a good chance there’ll
be neurodivergent people amongst you.

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And something to
remember is it’s common

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to have more than
one diagnosis as well —

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that we’re slowly
kind of realising this.

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There’s the commonalities
between these conditions

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and the overlap and the kind of having
two or three things at the same time.

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I’m going to talk about the language.
I think that’s really helpful.

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So the social language,
we use the great terms

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we might use versus,
maybe, the medical language.

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And I’m running with the
medical language more today.

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And I’ll explain that in a moment.

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So you might hear terms
neurospicy — I love that.

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We’re a neurospicy house.

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Even the word neurodivergent,
that’s not a medical diagnosis.

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It’s not a medical term.

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It’s a kind of movement
that’s built pace

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and kind of gathered ideas and thoughts as
it as it’s growing, as it’s rolling along.

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I came across a neuroshiny
the other day — love that.

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The Zoomies, that’s
perhaps somebody who has

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ADHD and has kind of
a real surge of energy.

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The notion of having
superpowers that people might

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talk about how they might
frame being neurodivergent.

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Dopamining, that’s sort of
behaviour where somebody’s

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looking for dopamine reward
hormones, enjoying what they’re doing.

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Those were words that people
own and bounced around but none

00:12:16.399 –> 00:12:20.738
of those — none of those words
are used in tribunals, on medical

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records, for Department of Work
and Pensions, or access to work.

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So in terms of framing
the language today,

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I’m going more with
the medical terminology.

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These terms are great, but
they’re not going to be used

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in any official capacity.

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So apologies to anybody who has
a preference for the language used.

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So for clarity, I’ll run
with the medical language

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rather than wonderful
words like neurospicy.

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So the words I’ll run with today —

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I’ll talk about autism.
So a person we generally

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say is autistic. Autistic
people generally

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say they are autistic.

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The words “suffer from” —
“suffer from autism” or “suffer from

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ADHD” is language that — I will shove
terms like that well to one side.

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And we often say
a person is autistic.

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But somebody said to me
once, “It’s not like a handbag.”

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“I don’t have autism.
I don’t pick it up

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and put it back down
again. I am autistic.”

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But the conditions — I’ll
use the medical terminology:

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Autism, ADHD, Dyslexia, Dyspraxia,
Dysgraphia, and Dyscalculia.

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I’ll probably call
those the 4 Ds.

00:13:24.289 –> 00:13:28.149
They’re a lot easier to
say than what I’ve just said.

00:13:28.173 –> 00:13:32.774
So that’s what we’re focusing on
today and understanding what’s

00:13:32.799 –> 00:13:35.436
going on there very
loosely, very lightly,

00:13:35.460 –> 00:13:38.240
but also looking at why we
need to make reasonable

00:13:38.264 –> 00:13:40.874
adjustments from the
people’s support side —

00:13:40.899 –> 00:13:44.577
the people side, the empathy side,
the understanding side, but also

00:13:44.600 –> 00:13:49.500
the legal duty to support people
who are autistic or dyslexic and

00:13:49.500 –> 00:13:52.194
need adjustments in the workplace.

00:13:52.967 –> 00:13:56.678
What I’m not doing today
is I’m not fully explaining

00:13:56.702 –> 00:14:00.975
the conditions, I’m not
describing the lived experience.

00:14:01.000 –> 00:14:04.980
I’m not showing or highlighting
the power of neurodivergent thinking.

00:14:05.004 –> 00:14:07.004
That is something I
really do believe in.

00:14:07.029 –> 00:14:09.433
But I’m not
demonstrating that today.

00:14:09.467 –> 00:14:13.342
I’m not describing the
full range of common

00:14:13.367 –> 00:14:16.367
co-occurring conditions
and intersectionality.

00:14:16.399 –> 00:14:20.254
And I’m not highlighting
potential impact on mental health.

00:14:20.267 –> 00:14:25.975
Those are hugely important topics that
needs to be done — justice needs to be done

00:14:26.000 –> 00:14:29.400
to those in long and larger
sessions than we have today.

00:14:29.433 –> 00:14:33.475
So I’m fully aware of all this stuff,
but we’re not covering it today.

00:14:33.500 –> 00:14:36.152
Lots of other stuff, really
important, we are doing.

00:14:36.167 –> 00:14:41.367
This stuff, come back, come back to me,
come back to other trainers, and spend

00:14:41.399 –> 00:14:42.733
more time focused on this stuff

00:14:42.757 –> 00:14:46.327
because all of those things are
important, just not fitting in today.

00:14:48.045 –> 00:14:51.053
So, why do we need to
know about neurodiversity?

00:14:51.077 –> 00:14:54.569
Pop your thoughts in chat. Actually, I’ll
give you a moment to think about that.

00:14:54.594 –> 00:14:58.475
So I’ve said neurodivergent people
have been around for a long time.

00:14:58.499 –> 00:15:02.889
The diagnosis, the language
around diagnosis has been increasing.

00:15:02.900 –> 00:15:06.873
Access to diagnosis has been
increasing to some degree.

00:15:07.069 –> 00:15:11.842
It’s kind of getting a bit more restrictive
now, accessing diagnosis through the NHS,

00:15:11.867 –> 00:15:14.217
for lots of complex reasons.

00:15:14.233 –> 00:15:17.121
But the words neurodiversity,
it’s bouncing around.

00:15:17.145 –> 00:15:20.481
Brilliant for me. I’ve been shouting
about this stuff for quite a while.

00:15:21.767 –> 00:15:27.395
Pop in chat, what are your thoughts about why
— why are you interested in neurodiversity?

00:15:27.419 –> 00:15:29.419
Why is it important to you?

00:15:29.444 –> 00:15:34.621
And I’ve just seen the lovely phrase
neurosparkly in chat. That’s awesome.

00:15:34.645 –> 00:15:36.496
Yeah. Neurosparkly. Yeah.

00:15:36.520 –> 00:15:38.520
That one repeated there.

00:15:39.172 –> 00:15:43.508
When I ask organisations
and charities about why

00:15:43.533 –> 00:15:46.133
we need to know about
more about neurodiversity,

00:15:46.169 –> 00:15:49.075
the common messages are well, we’re
getting a greater understanding.

00:15:49.100 –> 00:15:51.981
People are more aware as
individuals about their needs, about

00:15:52.005 –> 00:15:54.885
their differences, about their
strengths and their challenges,

00:15:54.909 –> 00:15:58.937
and as employer’s organisations
support organisations,

00:15:58.967 –> 00:16:03.275
we need to know more to better support
them and better understand them.

00:16:03.300 –> 00:16:09.054
And it’s stuff that just hasn’t
been spoken about enough.

00:16:09.067 –> 00:16:12.167
Yeah, and as I’ve spotted
in chat, there just isn’t a

00:16:12.200 –> 00:16:16.164
place where there isn’t
neurodiversity absolutely right.

00:16:16.200 –> 00:16:20.175
And it’s probably key to notice as
well that in the past the outcomes for

00:16:20.200 –> 00:16:23.742
neurodivergent people weren’t
always particularly positive:

00:16:23.766 –> 00:16:28.117
later understanding, late
diagnosis, late to get support.

00:16:28.833 –> 00:16:31.800
And there’s lots of reasons
why people just weren’t

00:16:31.830 –> 00:16:34.757
talking about this. It was
having a huge impact.

00:16:35.798 –> 00:16:38.854
And if I say estimated —
it’s sometimes quite hard

00:16:38.878 –> 00:16:41.810
to count all the
neurodivergent people out there

00:16:41.833 –> 00:16:44.242
because we don’t all
wear badges and put

00:16:44.267 –> 00:16:45.933
our hands up and
say, “Hey. That’s me”

00:16:45.957 –> 00:16:50.839
So it’s quite hard to count, but it’s estimated
about 1 in 14 people are neurodivergent.

00:16:50.867 –> 00:16:54.955
So when I go into schools and children
in schools go on to become employees

00:16:54.967 –> 00:16:57.200
in your organisations
further down the road,

00:16:57.232 –> 00:17:00.235
there’s a couple of kids in
every classroom who may

00:17:00.259 –> 00:17:03.261
be autistic or dyslexic or
dyspraxic or have ADHD.

00:17:04.050 –> 00:17:06.386
I can see that in
our classrooms.

00:17:07.133 –> 00:17:10.683
And those people go on to
join workforces in the future.

00:17:10.700 –> 00:17:15.751
So as I say, there’s a lot of
neurodivergent people out there.

00:17:15.767 –> 00:17:19.087
And somebody in chat has
made a great point about as

00:17:19.111 –> 00:17:22.431
we realise as adults that
we may be neurodivergent,

00:17:22.467 –> 00:17:25.092
we need to generate
that understanding around

00:17:25.116 –> 00:17:27.502
us as well. So people
understand what’s

00:17:27.526 –> 00:17:30.080
going on and we
understand why we are and

00:17:30.104 –> 00:17:33.042
who we are and all
the stuff that’s going on.

00:17:33.867 –> 00:17:39.853
You will work with colleagues and clients
who are diagnosed, self-diagnosed.

00:17:39.877 –> 00:17:42.692
There’s lots of
around that concept,

00:17:42.733 –> 00:17:44.936
but obviously adult
staff diagnose before

00:17:44.960 –> 00:17:47.000
they go on to get
a formal diagnosis.

00:17:47.039 –> 00:17:49.812
So if somebody can see they —

00:17:49.837 –> 00:17:51.646
throughout their life
— they can recognise

00:17:51.670 –> 00:17:53.307
these traits, these
challenges, these

00:17:53.331 –> 00:17:55.053
differences these
strengths, and they’ve

00:17:55.077 –> 00:17:56.800
been consistent
throughout their life,

00:17:57.200 –> 00:17:59.942
that’s when self-diagnosis
becomes valid.

00:17:59.967 –> 00:18:01.791
It’s a bit of a grey
area under law.

00:18:01.800 –> 00:18:04.967
Sometimes it’s considered
perhaps a working diagnosis if

00:18:05.000 –> 00:18:08.901
somebody is waiting to seek
an NHS — a formal diagnosis.

00:18:08.933 –> 00:18:13.067
But self-diagnosis can be valid but is
a little bit of a grey area under law.

00:18:13.233 –> 00:18:16.609
And there are many people who are
completely unaware because they have been

00:18:16.633 –> 00:18:18.196
who they are for
all their lives and

00:18:18.220 –> 00:18:20.008
done things the way
they’ve done things

00:18:20.033 –> 00:18:25.160
and not considered that there’s something
different going on with their processing

00:18:25.200 –> 00:18:27.577
in terms of how
they’re processing the

00:18:27.601 –> 00:18:29.977
world and interacting
with the world.

00:18:30.001 –> 00:18:33.047
You will have people who
disclose their diagnosis and

00:18:33.071 –> 00:18:34.922
know some people
who will not disclose.

00:18:34.947 –> 00:18:38.451
And it is their choice,
their right to disclose or not

00:18:38.475 –> 00:18:41.979
to disclose. You may well
have neurodivergent people who

00:18:42.000 –> 00:18:44.022
have been really
unsupported now or

00:18:44.046 –> 00:18:46.667
isolated or misunderstood
in the workplace.

00:18:46.700 –> 00:18:51.075
They might be struggling to communicate
in the way of the people expect them to.

00:18:51.100 –> 00:18:53.887
They may well have no
adjustments. No allowances, which

00:18:53.911 –> 00:18:57.008
would enable them to access
what everyone else is accessing.

00:18:57.233 –> 00:18:59.956
And reports statistics
say there’s a high chance

00:18:59.980 –> 00:19:02.587
of feeling bullied in
the workplace as well.

00:19:02.612 –> 00:19:06.598
So we’re looking at reasonable adjustments.
We’re looking at the Equality Act.

00:19:06.622 –> 00:19:08.622
We’re looking at neurodiversity.

00:19:08.646 –> 00:19:11.908
And these are the reasons
that we’re talking about this

00:19:11.933 –> 00:19:15.398
because you will have
colleagues and clients who are

00:19:15.422 –> 00:19:20.113
neurodivergent and experiencing
the difficulties I’ve listed there.

00:19:20.133 –> 00:19:22.926
There is a duty to support people.

00:19:24.033 –> 00:19:26.712
If I look at what makes
us neurodivergent then.

00:19:26.733 –> 00:19:29.993
Let’s kind of get a bit of an
understanding around that.

00:19:30.033 –> 00:19:33.236
We all have many
layers that make us us.

00:19:33.267 –> 00:19:36.907
So childhood experiences,

00:19:37.033 –> 00:19:44.251
health, trauma, all the socio-economic
factors of demographics all that stuff.

00:19:44.267 –> 00:19:46.126
That makes us us.

00:19:46.133 –> 00:19:49.446
We all have a brain at the core
of what we’re doing.

00:19:49.470 –> 00:19:50.943
That one I can guarantee.

00:19:50.967 –> 00:19:54.605
We all have a brain at the
core of what we’re doing that’s

00:19:54.629 –> 00:19:58.587
driving all of this stuff. That’s
the command centre, really.

00:19:58.612 –> 00:20:03.607
If you’re neurodivergent there are
processing differences within your brain

00:20:03.632 –> 00:20:06.247
and we can see those
processing differences often

00:20:06.271 –> 00:20:08.886
the challenges that people
might have in terms of

00:20:08.910 –> 00:20:11.577
what other people can
do readily and easily or the

00:20:11.601 –> 00:20:14.541
different way that people
do things, the different way

00:20:14.566 –> 00:20:19.475
that memory is stored or things are
processed or things are communicated.

00:20:19.500 –> 00:20:22.300
There are processing
difference in — within the brain

00:20:22.299 –> 00:20:24.996
that make us neurodivergent.

00:20:25.020 –> 00:20:29.800
I’m not going to go any deeper into
the science than that, thankfully.

00:20:29.833 –> 00:20:34.557
And this neurodivergent
differencing, the neurodivergent

00:20:34.581 –> 00:20:39.736
processing, all of those
conditions are about how memory —

00:20:39.767 –> 00:20:44.628
so memory around numbers, memory around
spelling and words, memory about long-term

00:20:44.652 –> 00:20:50.675
memory, short-term memory, how information
is processed, and how executive functioning works —

00:20:50.700 –> 00:20:55.175
all of those are different and
distinct within neurodivergent minds.

00:20:55.200 –> 00:20:57.700
So with executive functioning,
if you’ve not heard of that

00:20:57.700 –> 00:21:00.439
phrase, actually, think of

00:21:00.467 –> 00:21:03.400
a PA, a personal assistant or
an admin role within your brain,

00:21:03.433 –> 00:21:07.208
the executive functioning grid of your
brain keeps you organised, on track.

00:21:07.233 –> 00:21:09.159
It sees a whole list
of things you need to

00:21:09.183 –> 00:21:11.108
do and gets them
done in the right order.

00:21:11.133 –> 00:21:15.421
Neurodivergent brains often have
differences around executive functioning

00:21:15.445 –> 00:21:17.484
and as I talk a little bit
about more autism and

00:21:17.508 –> 00:21:19.808
ADHD, those will come
to light and a little bit more.

00:21:20.304 –> 00:21:22.868
If you’re neurodivergent
and there are processing

00:21:22.892 –> 00:21:26.554
differences, and there’s a
connectivity difference in your

00:21:26.567 –> 00:21:28.741
brain as well, and
what that comes out —

00:21:28.766 –> 00:21:33.938
So in the workplace, where we might see
differences in learning preferences,

00:21:33.962 –> 00:21:39.135
how people want to learn and retain and access
information, the responses people might

00:21:39.159 –> 00:21:42.248
make to different
situations, the social needs

00:21:42.272 –> 00:21:45.775
that a person has, sometimes
emotional regulation.

00:21:45.800 –> 00:21:49.808
So emotions can be quite
contained; emotions might bounce

00:21:49.833 –> 00:21:52.075
around a little more bit
more freely than other people,

00:21:52.100 –> 00:21:54.400
and how a person might communicate.

00:21:54.433 –> 00:21:57.647
So these are six distinct conditions.

00:21:57.667 –> 00:22:01.767
Autism, ADHD and the 4 Ds.
They are six distinct conditions.

00:22:01.800 –> 00:22:03.816
The overlap is it’s
all about memory,

00:22:03.840 –> 00:22:06.919
information processing,
executive functioning,

00:22:06.944 –> 00:22:08.572
and there are
connectivity differences

00:22:08.596 –> 00:22:11.175
between different
parts of the brain as well.

00:22:11.660 –> 00:22:14.875
So in terms of the reasonable
adjustments, why we need

00:22:14.900 –> 00:22:17.700
to make reasonable adjustments
is if we keep doing things

00:22:17.700 –> 00:22:22.638
the way we’ve all done things,
which can be very — a limited,

00:22:22.662 –> 00:22:27.599
a limited approach, very fixed
thinking, then we’re putting barriers in

00:22:27.599 –> 00:22:30.846
place for those who wouldn’t maybe
learn differently have different

00:22:30.867 –> 00:22:34.700
communication needs or who may
respond differently who might deal and

00:22:34.700 –> 00:22:37.174
process information differently.

00:22:37.198 –> 00:22:39.894
That’s why we need reasonable
adjustments in place at

00:22:39.918 –> 00:22:43.608
the heart — the heart? — the
core of neurodivergent people

00:22:43.633 –> 00:22:46.315
are these processing
differences that filter out into

00:22:46.333 –> 00:22:51.275
how they behave, how they
learn, how they communicate and connect and interact.

00:22:51.300 –> 00:22:54.175
And we need to make adjustments
because as the organisations,

00:22:54.200 –> 00:22:56.475
if we could keep doing
things the way we’ve done it,

00:22:56.500 –> 00:23:00.028
these barriers are stopping
people joining our organisations.

00:23:00.053 –> 00:23:06.300
But also retaining staff,
allowing staff to develop, to feel

00:23:06.299 –> 00:23:09.442
comfortable, to feel safe, to get
promoted, or to keep doing what

00:23:09.467 –> 00:23:12.528
they always want to do day in
day out — things they’re good at.

00:23:12.567 –> 00:23:16.490
So if we don’t make these reasonable
adjustments, if we don’t consider

00:23:16.514 –> 00:23:20.900
neurodivergent processing differences
in the workplace, we’re putting lots

00:23:20.900 –> 00:23:25.088
of blockers and barriers in place for
people that really shouldn’t be there.

00:23:25.112 –> 00:23:28.016
And the law says they should
be there too.

00:23:28.041 –> 00:23:30.515
So as I said, those
are the diagnoses we’re

00:23:30.539 –> 00:23:33.013
talking about today:
Autism, ADHD, Dyslexia,

00:23:33.037 –> 00:23:37.665
Dyspraxia, Dysgraphia, Dyscalculia. I’ll
go over each in a little bit of detail.

00:23:38.133 –> 00:23:41.805
And remember late
diagnosis is common.

00:23:41.829 –> 00:23:45.047
So you would kind
of think, gosh surely if

00:23:45.067 –> 00:23:47.391
you’re dyslexic, you would?

00:23:48.300 –> 00:23:52.599
Somebody would spot it. You get a
diagnosis. I come across so many young

00:23:52.623 –> 00:23:55.751
young people entering further
education, higher education.

00:23:56.142 –> 00:23:58.142
The diagnosis is only
just pops out then.

00:23:58.167 –> 00:24:01.126
Or they get into the workplace
and somebody picks up

00:24:01.150 –> 00:24:04.080
perhaps some difficulties
they have, some challenges or

00:24:04.100 –> 00:24:08.416
meeting certain expectations around
language and writing and emails

00:24:08.433 –> 00:24:12.986
and messages and, “Ah, maybe, let’s
screen you for dyslexia.”

00:24:13.000 –> 00:24:17.775
Lots of reasons why our education
system isn’t picking people up early

00:24:17.800 –> 00:24:22.200
enough or getting diagnosis quickly
enough or putting support in place.

00:24:22.200 –> 00:24:26.088
But it is common to have late
diagnosis even people coming

00:24:26.112 –> 00:24:30.842
through education system now or people
who are like me a little bit older

00:24:30.867 –> 00:24:34.200
and there just wasn’t
access to this stuff.

00:24:34.221 –> 00:24:36.908
And interesting to know — I said
these conditions — you can have a

00:24:36.933 –> 00:24:38.842
couple of things. You
could have autism and

00:24:38.866 –> 00:24:40.776
ADHD. That’s proving
more and more common.

00:24:40.800 –> 00:24:44.942
You could have dyslexia and ADHD,
but the diagnosis pathways are separate.

00:24:44.967 –> 00:24:48.172
So you might have a colleague
who’s going for a diagnosis

00:24:48.196 –> 00:24:50.906
of autism and actually has
to go down another route —

00:24:50.933 –> 00:24:54.421
start all over again if they think
they might have ADHD or dyslexia.

00:24:54.445 –> 00:24:58.675
It’s not easy. So in the
workplace, we also need the

00:24:58.700 –> 00:25:02.380
understanding, actually, in terms
of reasonable adjustments and

00:25:02.404 –> 00:25:06.500
deciding are we going to wait
until there’s a formal diagnosis or

00:25:06.500 –> 00:25:11.179
will we accept a working diagnosis
knowing that person is seeking a

00:25:11.204 –> 00:25:14.247
referral of perhaps
autism or ADHD?

00:25:15.133 –> 00:25:18.300
Let’s touch on these
conditions very briefly.

00:25:21.133 –> 00:25:24.443
So it’s good that you can come
back to this and have a look at this.

00:25:24.467 –> 00:25:28.642
I don’t want to not do
justice to these conditions.

00:25:28.667 –> 00:25:31.748
So you will see now —
Warning — high-level overview.

00:25:31.772 –> 00:25:36.175
I actually wanted hazard light flashing
here *whoa, whoa* and sirens going.

00:25:36.633 –> 00:25:40.028
Very high-level overview.
With dyslexia, we’re talking

00:25:40.067 –> 00:25:44.200
about a person whose brain
doesn’t process language, sounds,

00:25:44.200 –> 00:25:49.188
spelling, reading, writing in
typical ways. And that comes out in

00:25:49.212 –> 00:25:55.542
not reading things quickly or mis-finding
words, very poor spelling or grammar.

00:25:55.567 –> 00:25:58.326
Loads of ways that
that might come up. But

00:25:58.350 –> 00:26:01.108
it’s about decoding
language in the brain.

00:26:01.133 –> 00:26:03.767
That bit of the brain just
doesn’t connect in the same way.

00:26:03.800 –> 00:26:07.588
Dysgraphia, less diagnosed
but fairly common, and it

00:26:07.612 –> 00:26:08.832
is just a diff- —

00:26:08.867 –> 00:26:10.199
I don’t was to say “just” —

00:26:10.224 –> 00:26:13.402
It is a difficulty getting what’s
in your head onto paper.

00:26:13.427 –> 00:26:15.433
So all the stuff that’s
going in your head — really

00:26:15.467 –> 00:26:17.533
tricky to get that
stuff on paper.

00:26:17.568 –> 00:26:21.019
Dysgraphia impacts writing in
particular.

00:26:21.044 –> 00:26:23.363
Dyscalculia, consistent
difficulties around

00:26:23.400 –> 00:26:29.928
maths, so math skills, time,
money measurements, calculations.

00:26:29.967 –> 00:26:32.243
Right from the start, early
years, all the way through,

00:26:32.267 –> 00:26:35.367
this stuff doesn’t disappear.
And dyspraxia means that the

00:26:35.400 –> 00:26:38.766
brain doesn’t quite send the
movement, the coordination signals

00:26:38.800 –> 00:26:43.042
consistently and effectively
to the bits of the body all the time.

00:26:43.067 –> 00:26:45.667
So that person might
seem awkward and clumsy.

00:26:45.700 –> 00:26:48.197
It always seems fair to
say, “Look, there are real

00:26:48.221 –> 00:26:50.667
strengths, real power
to having these different

00:26:50.700 –> 00:26:54.142
processing, and we often see with
anyone with a 4 Ds, they’re very

00:26:54.166 –> 00:26:57.500
visual thinkers, can be really
creative and absolutely have an

00:26:57.500 –> 00:26:59.675
alternative working
style because they’re not

00:26:59.700 –> 00:27:02.033
accessing things in the same
way that other people are.

00:27:02.063 –> 00:27:05.912
They’re not dealing with numbers in
a typical way if you’re dyscalculic.

00:27:06.694 –> 00:27:10.678
In terms of autistic preferences,
again, that high-level alert.

00:27:11.200 –> 00:27:14.115
If we’re looking at
this perspective —

00:27:14.133 –> 00:27:17.709
so our lens the day is reasonable
adjustments. Our lense is

00:27:17.733 –> 00:27:21.308
looking at the Equality Acts
and the need to offer support.

00:27:21.333 –> 00:27:25.508
Autism is complex, is
fascinating and interesting

00:27:25.533 –> 00:27:29.300
and I’d love to do it justice, but
this is a really high-level overview.

00:27:29.500 –> 00:27:32.729
What we commonly see
with autistic preferences is

00:27:32.767 –> 00:27:36.133
the need for routine that
gives safety and security.

00:27:36.361 –> 00:27:38.745
Consistency is really helpful.

00:27:38.767 –> 00:27:43.076
There is an ability to hyperfocus and
get locked into something — can be

00:27:43.100 –> 00:27:47.408
an absolute specialist, but to really
get locked into what’s happening.

00:27:47.433 –> 00:27:51.088
And they’re often different communication
needs and different social needs.

00:27:51.113 –> 00:27:54.581
And there can be a sense of fixed
thoughts or some inflexibility —

00:27:54.605 –> 00:27:57.521
what might be called rigid
thinking on some subjects.

00:27:57.667 –> 00:28:01.150
But goodness me are autistic
people are clear, concise,

00:28:01.175 –> 00:28:06.108
relevant, logical, completers, accurate,
focused, committed experts and specialists.

00:28:06.133 –> 00:28:09.567
And if you detect any sense
of bias, you are probably

00:28:09.599 –> 00:28:14.230
correct and that is right and true
from my perspective here.

00:28:14.255 –> 00:28:16.882
But those are some of the
reasons. So if we’re thinking

00:28:16.906 –> 00:28:19.972
about reasonable adjustments
and how we might support people,

00:28:19.996 –> 00:28:23.644
these are some of the areas that
we could support autistic people.

00:28:24.386 –> 00:28:28.202
They will benefit from low sensory
spaces and reduced overwhelm in

00:28:28.226 –> 00:28:32.042
order to manage some of these
preferences, some of these differences.

00:28:32.067 –> 00:28:35.422
And we often have to think, as
well, socialising does take more

00:28:35.446 –> 00:28:38.800
social energy and does take
a little bit more active thinking

00:28:38.799 –> 00:28:40.416
for autistic people.

00:28:40.433 –> 00:28:43.316
Autism is more complex
than that, but with that lens of

00:28:43.340 –> 00:28:46.867
reasonable adjustments, I think
this information is useful today.

00:28:46.900 –> 00:28:51.008
But there is so much more going
on that’s fascinating and brilliant.

00:28:51.033 –> 00:28:56.075
And in terms of ADHD, again
warning high-level overview,

00:28:56.100 –> 00:28:57.670
you’ll get tired of
hearing that, I think.

00:28:57.700 –> 00:29:01.170
But it’s important and
somebody with ADHD —

00:29:01.194 –> 00:29:04.663
attention deficit
hyperactivity disorder —

00:29:05.000 –> 00:29:09.936
not a term that lots of ADHD people
might like because it’s about disorder

00:29:09.967 –> 00:29:12.567
and it always sounds as
though you’re not enough or you

00:29:12.599 –> 00:29:16.499
haven’t got enough or you’re
flawed or there’s a deficit here.

00:29:16.523 –> 00:29:19.116
That’s the medical language
we’re running with today though.

00:29:19.299 –> 00:29:22.085
So attention deficit
hyperactivity disorder,

00:29:22.100 –> 00:29:24.188
there might be
challenges, struggles, some

00:29:24.212 –> 00:29:27.074
differences around time
management, self-management.

00:29:27.099 –> 00:29:32.006
Just remembering to take a drink of water
when you’re really busy, stuff like that.

00:29:32.033 –> 00:29:34.575
Definitely fluctuating
energy levels. So loads

00:29:34.599 –> 00:29:38.075
of energy and enthusiasm
that might drop off

00:29:38.100 –> 00:29:39.458
when they burn out a little bit.

00:29:39.467 –> 00:29:41.802
Probably feel restless
or impatient with things

00:29:41.833 –> 00:29:44.368
that aren’t as
exciting — so might

00:29:44.392 –> 00:29:47.675
struggle to maintain
focus on boring tasks.

00:29:47.700 –> 00:29:53.142
And a degree, depending on the individual,
of impulsiveness or risk-taking.

00:29:53.167 –> 00:29:55.357
And that may for
some of us look like

00:29:55.367 –> 00:29:58.951
if there’s a sign that says
“do not touch” or “do not enter” —

00:29:58.975 –> 00:30:00.575
some of us — mentioning no names —

00:30:00.599 –> 00:30:04.587
may not be able to resist signs like
that, that slightly impulsive behaviour.

00:30:04.800 –> 00:30:08.600
That, “Ooh, I wonder
if I just through to people who

00:30:08.599 –> 00:30:12.389
might partake in really risky
activities and really risky sports and

00:30:12.400 –> 00:30:15.467
interests and stuff
and maybe life choices.

00:30:15.499 –> 00:30:16.876
It’s a sliding scale.

00:30:16.900 –> 00:30:21.374
Some of us just can’t resist pushing
the button that we shouldn’t push —

00:30:21.400 –> 00:30:24.264
and others. Yeah. It’s
a scale.

00:30:24.433 –> 00:30:29.405
But our ADHD people — wow! Energy,
enthusiasm, motivated, committed,

00:30:29.429 –> 00:30:34.400
positive, loads of ideas, creative,
engaged. They can be really chatty.

00:30:34.400 –> 00:30:36.647
They can be really fun.
They can be really lively.

00:30:36.671 –> 00:30:39.264
ADHD, sometimes
that’s all in the head.

00:30:39.300 –> 00:30:42.468
Some people with ADHD, it
comes out in physical movement.

00:30:42.500 –> 00:30:46.088
For some people with ADHD,
all those thoughts are bouncing

00:30:46.112 –> 00:30:50.475
around, not necessarily coming
out in physical movement.

00:30:50.500 –> 00:30:52.470
Again, there is so
much more to being

00:30:52.500 –> 00:30:54.749
ADHD, but through
our lens of reasonable

00:30:54.774 –> 00:30:58.575
adjustments, I think this
is a good frame to put it in.

00:30:58.600 –> 00:31:02.978
And it is a difference in how the
brain controls rewards and attention.

00:31:03.000 –> 00:31:06.883
And also those processing
differences are there about memory

00:31:06.907 –> 00:31:10.634
and executive functioning and
how information is processed.

00:31:10.667 –> 00:31:15.142
But there’s a difference in how the
brain is managing attention and rewards.

00:31:15.167 –> 00:31:18.525
And that’s often linked
to the hormone dopamine.

00:31:19.033 –> 00:31:20.533
but we don’t need
any more on that.

00:31:21.000 –> 00:31:26.575
ADHD people absolutely can hyperfocus
for long periods of time and

00:31:26.600 –> 00:31:29.225
really get lost in
passions and interests and

00:31:29.249 –> 00:31:31.873
have a really, really
enthusiasm for stuff.

00:31:31.898 –> 00:31:36.108
So, again, thinking through the
lens of reasonable adjustments,

00:31:36.133 –> 00:31:41.708
keep in mind what we’re talking about at
high-level. What we’re talking about in terms of

00:31:41.733 –> 00:31:45.224
being neurodivergent
and how that might

00:31:45.248 –> 00:31:49.794
affect people in positive
ways and also as challenges.

00:31:50.100 –> 00:31:53.138
And this often gets overlooked.
And looking through the lens

00:31:53.162 –> 00:31:57.138
of reasonable adjustments — I’m
just about to come onto those now —

00:31:57.167 –> 00:32:02.808
Most, if not all, neurodivergent,
particularly autistic people,

00:32:02.833 –> 00:32:06.522
particularly people with ADHD
have sensory challenges.

00:32:06.547 –> 00:32:09.022
Now, a neurodivergent
sensory system…

00:32:10.623 –> 00:32:13.708
these don’t affectively
process sensory inputs.

00:32:13.733 –> 00:32:15.740
You might be
under or over sensitive to a

00:32:15.767 –> 00:32:18.045
massive range of
things or have poor

00:32:18.067 –> 00:32:21.033
filtering or
integration of senses.

00:32:21.067 –> 00:32:23.142
And sensory distress,
when your sensory

00:32:23.167 –> 00:32:25.908
system isn’t coping
with all the inputs.

00:32:25.933 –> 00:32:29.255
So the sights, the sounds,
the smells, the movements,

00:32:29.279 –> 00:32:32.600
the tastes, the internal
feelings of pain and hunger,

00:32:32.599 –> 00:32:36.307
all that stuff that our brain
processes that’s amazing,

00:32:36.333 –> 00:32:41.675
neurodivergent brains don’t process sensory
information as effectively or can be

00:32:41.700 –> 00:32:48.182
hypersensitive and really detect
certain inputs really strongly

00:32:48.206 –> 00:32:50.075
— so really strong
particularly smells or tastes

00:32:50.099 –> 00:32:54.337
have a really strong reaction to
that or no reactions sometimes.

00:32:54.361 –> 00:32:59.142
But sensory distress can push people
into fight, flight, or freeze mode.

00:32:59.167 –> 00:33:03.975
They can cause a real sense of overwhelm
— sensory system keeps you safe.

00:33:04.000 –> 00:33:07.300
If it gets overwhelmed
and overloaded it will push

00:33:07.299 –> 00:33:10.719
you to fight, flight, or freeze
mode, into a distressed state.

00:33:10.733 –> 00:33:14.724
This is important because some of the
people that come to you might say,

00:33:14.749 –> 00:33:18.123
“Look, there’s a sensory input,” or
they might talk about lights or heating

00:33:18.133 –> 00:33:20.933
or noise that’s causing
a huge amount of stress.

00:33:20.960 –> 00:33:25.068
So I’d really like to remember that
for neurodivergent people, the sensory

00:33:25.092 –> 00:33:27.894
system, the sensory
processing system, doesn’t

00:33:27.918 –> 00:33:30.408
work in the same
way or as effectively.

00:33:30.433 –> 00:33:35.467
It’s a little bit more and a lot more hyperactive,
hypersensitive than a typical person’s.

00:33:35.491 –> 00:33:37.491
So really listen
to those requests

00:33:37.599 –> 00:33:39.975
because you might think, “Gosh
what’s wrong with you? Why can’t

00:33:40.000 –> 00:33:42.354
you sit by the open
door? What’s the

00:33:42.378 –> 00:33:45.408
problem? The air con
noise doesn’t bother me

00:33:45.433 –> 00:33:47.944
I don’t mind if somebody’s
cooking in the kitchen.”

00:33:47.967 –> 00:33:51.017
You might think that, but
for a neurodivergent person,

00:33:51.041 –> 00:33:54.033
actually, the sensory
distress in the day can be the

00:33:54.062 –> 00:33:56.599
thing that stops them from
coming into the office.

00:33:59.400 –> 00:34:03.182
So I’m going to have a quick
look to see if there’s any desperate

00:34:03.206 –> 00:34:06.811
questions that have kind of popped
up that — I think to add now.

00:34:07.967 –> 00:34:11.382
OK, there’s lots of stuff around
the contact in general which is good.

00:34:11.400 –> 00:34:13.478
So let’s look at the legal side then.

00:34:13.502 –> 00:34:15.674
6 conditions are
generally considered to

00:34:15.699 –> 00:34:20.342
be disabilities and therefore protected
characteristics under the Equality Act.

00:34:20.367 –> 00:34:24.942
Once the diagnosis comes,
pretty much that’s guaranteed.

00:34:24.967 –> 00:34:29.533
A little bit of a grey area sometimes
around dyscalculia or dyspraxia.

00:34:29.567 –> 00:34:33.408
It has to be how much
these things — all the 4 Ds —

00:34:33.433 –> 00:34:36.290
how much these things impact
a person day to day

00:34:36.300 –> 00:34:38.952
and their ability to function
or to do whatever else

00:34:38.976 –> 00:34:41.575
is doing or to access what
everyone else is doing.

00:34:41.600 –> 00:34:43.596
And if you can prove
they significantly

00:34:43.633 –> 00:34:46.700
impact these things, then
they are considered as

00:34:46.733 –> 00:34:51.167
protected characteristics, as
disabilities, under the Equality Act.

00:34:51.416 –> 00:34:55.713
So I will read this out
because I think this is important.

00:34:55.733 –> 00:35:00.108
You can not listen, you can read it yourself
if you want to, or you can listen to me.

00:35:00.133 –> 00:35:03.200
So not all neurodivergent
workers will consider

00:35:03.199 –> 00:35:07.319
themselves to be disabled. Workers
have the right to identify or not

00:35:07.343 –> 00:35:11.400
identify with the term as they
see fit. Under the Equality Act 2010,

00:35:11.400 –> 00:35:14.741
neurodivergent workers are
however likely to meet the legal

00:35:14.765 –> 00:35:18.800
definition of disability. This
provides them with important rights of

00:35:18.800 –> 00:35:22.238
reasonable adjustments and
protections against discrimination,

00:35:22.262 –> 00:35:25.699
harassment, and victimisation.
Workers are also protected against

00:35:25.699 –> 00:35:29.338
discrimination by association.
This may arise when a worker is

00:35:29.362 –> 00:35:32.142
treated less favourably
because they have a

00:35:32.167 –> 00:35:34.500
dependent with a
neurodivergent condition.

00:35:34.532 –> 00:35:39.042
eg parents or carers of perhaps
an autistic child or dyspraxic child.

00:35:39.100 –> 00:35:43.467
And that was current at the time and
I borrowed from the GMB Union website.

00:35:43.493 –> 00:35:46.638
And I think the wording of
this is important to get it right.

00:35:46.662 –> 00:35:50.329
So it’s current when
I copied it across.

00:35:50.533 –> 00:35:53.289
And when we’re thinking about
reasonable adjustments again, I

00:35:53.313 –> 00:35:56.300
think it’s important to get the
language right. So it’s a change

00:35:56.300 –> 00:35:59.180
that must be made to
remove a disadvantage related

00:35:59.204 –> 00:36:01.965
to an employee’s
disability when doing the job

00:36:02.000 –> 00:36:05.408
and the job applicant’s
disability when applying for a job.

00:36:06.133 –> 00:36:09.517
A reasonable adjustment
could involve making changes

00:36:09.533 –> 00:36:12.052
to the workplace and
working arrangements.

00:36:12.364 –> 00:36:15.196
Equipment support
or services provided,

00:36:15.233 –> 00:36:17.208
the way things are
done and providing

00:36:17.233 –> 00:36:19.650
information in an
accessible format.

00:36:19.674 –> 00:36:21.674
Lots to think about there.

00:36:21.867 –> 00:36:25.385
Lots to start thinking about. Well,
actually, what do I need to consider?

00:36:25.482 –> 00:36:28.022
What do I need to be
doing in the workplace?

00:36:28.300 –> 00:36:32.875
An employer could be liable under
law if they do not do these things.

00:36:32.900 –> 00:36:34.687
For example, if
someone does not get the

00:36:34.711 –> 00:36:36.498
reasonable adjustments
they need at work,

00:36:36.567 –> 00:36:41.208
they could make a disability discrimination
claim to an employment tribunal.

00:36:41.233 –> 00:36:45.108
So those cases are on the rise.
So case law is developing there.

00:36:45.133 –> 00:36:49.108
There will be new situations, new
examples that are occurring all the time.

00:36:49.933 –> 00:36:52.542
So we can look back over
past — you could look back over

00:36:52.567 –> 00:36:55.500
past case law and
see what’s happened.

00:36:55.533 –> 00:36:58.208
But don’t be the ones
to set the precedent

00:36:58.233 –> 00:37:00.300
where your organisation
may have got it wrong.

00:37:00.333 –> 00:37:04.272
You don’t want to be
future case law examples.

00:37:04.300 –> 00:37:08.174
So it’s an evolving area
and a developing area, but

00:37:08.199 –> 00:37:12.738
there’s some great advice out there
from legal firms, ensuring you’re

00:37:12.762 –> 00:37:15.653
getting it right. If in
doubt, double check.

00:37:15.712 –> 00:37:18.465
A couple of real case studies then

00:37:18.489 –> 00:37:20.692
that might help you think
a little bit more about this.

00:37:23.099 –> 00:37:27.809
So real stories. So K is employed
as a general restaurant assistant

00:37:27.833 –> 00:37:31.335
and he disclosed his
dyslexia when applying.

00:37:31.359 –> 00:37:34.655
He’s also autistic, but he
didn’t want to share that.

00:37:35.667 –> 00:37:36.800
His choice.

00:37:37.194 –> 00:37:39.058
And on his first day,
he’d said he would

00:37:39.082 –> 00:37:41.199
struggle to write down
orders quickly and

00:37:41.199 –> 00:37:44.117
legibly on a notepad and actually
felt a little bit nervous about

00:37:44.133 –> 00:37:47.975
talking to customers at the tables
and taking those orders from them

00:37:48.000 –> 00:37:50.557
particularly, if they were going
to make anything complicated or

00:37:50.582 –> 00:37:54.900
change what they wanted. So his
role was adjusted on the first day to

00:37:54.900 –> 00:37:57.702
focus on table clearing
and managing stock.

00:37:57.733 –> 00:37:59.814
And after a few months,
he was offered the chance

00:37:59.838 –> 00:38:01.433
to learn how to use the till.

00:38:01.458 –> 00:38:04.597
And that to be a little bit more time
to develop his confidence, but he now

00:38:04.622 –> 00:38:06.648
happily takes orders at the tills.

00:38:06.672 –> 00:38:09.308
And actually, I’ve had
an update recently.

00:38:09.333 –> 00:38:13.073
He’s now also starting to help
cook and prepare food,

00:38:13.097 –> 00:38:14.443
which is fantastic.

00:38:14.467 –> 00:38:18.152
That was all done
really discreetly. No fuss,

00:38:18.233 –> 00:38:21.204
no bother I think is the
easiest way to say it.

00:38:21.233 –> 00:38:23.588
Just simple adjustments
made on the day.

00:38:23.612 –> 00:38:25.967
He didn’t ask for
anything in advance,

00:38:26.000 –> 00:38:29.942
but when he got there, he
said “Ah, this doesn’t feel good.

00:38:29.967 –> 00:38:33.133
I don’t think I can do this
but I can do the other stuff.”

00:38:33.142 –> 00:38:35.364
Does it mean that
more team members are

00:38:35.400 –> 00:38:37.844
writing down orders
on notepads than him?

00:38:37.933 –> 00:38:40.881
Yes, it does. Does it
mean he’s doing more time

00:38:40.900 –> 00:38:44.000
on till, clearing tables,
wash up than them?

00:38:44.133 –> 00:38:46.819
Yes, it does but it’s a whole
team approach and those

00:38:46.843 –> 00:38:50.100
adjustments are fair to him.
And I don’t know whether actually

00:38:50.099 –> 00:38:53.181
his difficulties or differences
have been disclosed at all to

00:38:53.205 –> 00:38:57.167
anybody else. Those adjustments
were just made and put in discreetly.

00:38:57.833 –> 00:39:01.915
And R is a trainee solicitor and
going through the interview process.

00:39:01.933 –> 00:39:04.400
And I believe it’s quite
torturous in terms of law and

00:39:04.400 –> 00:39:09.108
getting roles and training etc, and,
in interview, declares her diagnosis.

00:39:09.133 –> 00:39:11.400
and when asked in interview
what supports you might need,

00:39:11.400 –> 00:39:16.075
she generally talks about quiet
— and that is genuinely quiet —

00:39:16.100 –> 00:39:20.467
not a space people come in and out of
but a quiet space to work occasionally

00:39:20.479 –> 00:39:23.486
or homeworking in some
days if this isn’t possible.

00:39:23.510 –> 00:39:27.623
Another option is is it OK if she
wears ear defenders in the office

00:39:27.733 –> 00:39:31.411
just to screen some of those sound
and actually have a high screen

00:39:31.435 –> 00:39:35.338
around her desk creating a
calm space or a tidy space for her.

00:39:35.699 –> 00:39:37.193
And it’s a little bit quieter.

00:39:37.233 –> 00:39:41.783
So those the adjustments that
she would ask for at interview stage.

00:39:42.167 –> 00:39:45.708
Now, E has ADHD and
can really hyper focus.

00:39:45.733 –> 00:39:47.422
fantastic at really
getting into work

00:39:47.433 –> 00:39:49.270
and working at
speed on some project

00:39:49.294 –> 00:39:52.808
tasks and there’s quite a few
of the team doing similar things.

00:39:52.833 –> 00:39:55.738
What E tries to do is get
away from the desk, take

00:39:55.767 –> 00:39:58.672
short breaks to hyper focus,
so the rest of the team will

00:39:58.699 –> 00:40:01.787
see them getting up moving away.
So they’ll go outside, get a drink

00:40:01.811 –> 00:40:05.065
walk up and down the stairs
etc not distracting others,

00:40:05.089 –> 00:40:07.910
but kind of getting away
just to resettle or rethink.

00:40:08.370 –> 00:40:11.484
And they’re measured on
outcomes, not hours and sometimes

00:40:11.508 –> 00:40:14.342
they’re really hyper
focused for a couple of days,

00:40:14.367 –> 00:40:17.022
getting the support to make sure
they don’t burn themselves out.

00:40:17.046 –> 00:40:18.976
But actually they
might come in later or

00:40:19.000 –> 00:40:22.918
have a day, home-base when it
isn’t normally, just time to recover.

00:40:22.942 –> 00:40:25.731
So there’s real flexibility in
the moment there for E.

00:40:25.833 –> 00:40:28.758
Say yeah, you’re working. You
get lots done perhaps in the short

00:40:28.767 –> 00:40:31.356
amount of time, but you
do need those breaks.

00:40:31.367 –> 00:40:33.935
ADHD brains need
often multiple things

00:40:33.959 –> 00:40:36.876
to focus on and to
kind of keep things

00:40:36.900 –> 00:40:39.072
ticking over
comfortably in there.

00:40:40.167 –> 00:40:42.061
And I think it’s really
important you —

00:40:42.199 –> 00:40:45.342
We all listen to these
neurodivergent voices.

00:40:45.772 –> 00:40:49.209
This message was
given to me by students.

00:40:49.233 –> 00:40:51.279
So I got in touch with
some students recently

00:40:51.304 –> 00:40:53.506
because I’m working —
more universities now, which

00:40:53.533 –> 00:40:56.200
is fascinating, looking
at the student experience

00:40:56.233 –> 00:40:59.780
bearing in mind that students will
then go into the workplace and need

00:40:59.800 –> 00:41:04.075
these reasonable adjustments. Anyway,
what they said to me was it — so autism —

00:41:04.100 –> 00:41:08.530
“It is not called an invisible
disability for no reason.”

00:41:08.833 –> 00:41:12.367
“I’ve probably striven harder
than most to get there and I’m

00:41:12.400 –> 00:41:15.503
probably working to a much
higher stress level all the time.”

00:41:15.533 –> 00:41:19.975
“This speaks to my commitment. Please
recognise that and see my potential.”

00:41:20.000 –> 00:41:24.960
“Don’t see my stereotypes. Ask me how
you can best support me to do my best.”

00:41:25.000 –> 00:41:28.475
“I always feel like a nuisance,
an outsider, and less than others

00:41:28.885 –> 00:41:32.030
and a little empathy goes a very
long way.”

00:41:32.300 –> 00:41:35.538
And that really resonated
with me on a personal note

00:41:36.630 –> 00:41:39.308
for in the workplace
— when I was

00:41:39.333 –> 00:41:43.370
in a typical job, working
as an employee full time,

00:41:43.394 –> 00:41:47.431
I always felt I was apologising for
who I was and how I did things.

00:41:47.456 –> 00:41:52.416
I always felt I was hiding any challenges
or any real strengths that I had.

00:41:53.200 –> 00:41:57.247
I didn’t really understand what
was going on at the time, but I just

00:41:57.272 –> 00:42:01.024
felt I was never quite working to
my potential. There was so much more

00:42:01.048 –> 00:42:05.138
I could do, but I wasn’t able to
express or perhaps demonstrate that

00:42:05.300 –> 00:42:08.718
in the way that my employer
needed or wanted at the time.

00:42:08.733 –> 00:42:14.208
So this really resonated with me and
certainly the stress levels being unsupported,

00:42:14.233 –> 00:42:18.893
being misunderstood. People
not having empathy or making

00:42:18.933 –> 00:42:24.500
changes where needed
for me led to exhaustion.

00:42:24.500 –> 00:42:28.638
It led to countless stress migraines.
It led to just being overwhelmed and

00:42:28.662 –> 00:42:31.364
not able to do anything
else other than work.

00:42:31.600 –> 00:42:34.176
And as much as I’m
sure we all love work, it’s

00:42:34.200 –> 00:42:37.467
nice to do stuff outside
of work that isn’t work.

00:42:37.500 –> 00:42:40.667
Now, I have the understanding
of who I am and I can ask for

00:42:40.699 –> 00:42:42.975
those adjustments if I need them.

00:42:42.999 –> 00:42:45.709
I really work to my
strengths and those stress

00:42:45.733 –> 00:42:48.667
migraines are long
gone, which is a relief.

00:42:48.700 –> 00:42:51.060
So I’m not saying everyone
needs to be like me and

00:42:51.084 –> 00:42:53.444
a freelancer and out
there doing their own thing,

00:42:53.469 –> 00:42:55.984
but it is about understanding
the differences, the

00:42:56.008 –> 00:42:58.522
difficulties, the strengths
the person might have

00:42:58.867 –> 00:43:02.970
and just helping shape the
workplace to help support them.

00:43:04.267 –> 00:43:07.208
And in terms of reasonable
adjustments, if we think of it —

00:43:07.232 –> 00:43:08.122
Do you know what?

00:43:08.146 –> 00:43:10.061
When I’m talking
about this stuff today or

00:43:10.085 –> 00:43:12.000
you’re thinking about
new policies, new

00:43:12.000 –> 00:43:15.607
way of doing things, sometimes we
can change things in the workplace

00:43:15.633 –> 00:43:18.693
that actually really
improve it for everyone.

00:43:18.733 –> 00:43:21.868
I’ve worked a lot with schools
and they say, “Gosh if we did

00:43:21.892 –> 00:43:24.471
that for every pupil, they’d
probably make the day a lot better.”

00:43:24.500 –> 00:43:27.738
And sometimes there are changes that
can be made for everyone,

00:43:27.767 –> 00:43:30.408
particularly when we think
about recruitment and selection.

00:43:30.432 –> 00:43:32.811
That’s still quite archaic from
the processes we have there.

00:43:33.064 –> 00:43:36.675
And then there are genuine
reasonable adjustments;

00:43:36.700 –> 00:43:38.975
reasonable adjustment
where a person has said

00:43:39.000 –> 00:43:42.808
“This is a barrier and this is
where I’m find this very difficult.”

00:43:42.833 –> 00:43:44.684
“This adjustment
would really help me to

00:43:44.708 –> 00:43:46.942
succeed or do what
everyone else is doing.”

00:43:46.967 –> 00:43:50.303
That is the reasonable
adjustment related to the protected

00:43:50.327 –> 00:43:54.342
characteristic of disability
under the Equality Act 2010.

00:43:54.367 –> 00:43:58.185
And then there are kind of day-to-day
accommodations we can make.

00:43:58.700 –> 00:44:00.412
And if we think about that —

00:44:00.433 –> 00:44:04.505
so the policy and process improvements
review and change how things are done.

00:44:04.529 –> 00:44:08.249
Reasonable adjustments. Actually, the
law says it should be pre-emptive.

00:44:08.267 –> 00:44:12.022
If you know you have somebody who
is dyslexic joining, ask them what

00:44:12.046 –> 00:44:15.612
is their typical way of working or
what adjustments may help them now.

00:44:15.633 –> 00:44:20.355
Now, you may not get it all right,
in place, exactly, the first time,

00:44:20.379 –> 00:44:24.792
but it’s important to ask and
you must respond to requests.

00:44:24.817 –> 00:44:28.699
If somebody requests a reasonable
adjustment, you must respond to that

00:44:28.723 –> 00:44:32.433
because it’s under the framework
of the Equality Act 2010.

00:44:32.458 –> 00:44:36.183
Even if they don’t realise that
themselves, so it must be acknowledged.

00:44:36.208 –> 00:44:40.908
And if a reasonable adjustment is put
in place, it should be across the board.

00:44:40.933 –> 00:44:46.042
So if somebody requires perhaps
some assistive tech on their laptop

00:44:46.067 –> 00:44:48.200
or on their devices,
then it’s really

00:44:48.199 –> 00:44:50.308
important that is
everywhere, that’s accessible

00:44:50.333 –> 00:44:53.326
everywhere, not just in
one room or one place.

00:44:53.433 –> 00:44:55.944
It’s got to be consistent, a
consistent way of working.

00:44:56.467 –> 00:44:59.479
And I say these have got
to be defendable decisions.

00:44:59.504 –> 00:45:05.200
If you or your organisation is
brought before tribunal and you were

00:45:05.199 –> 00:45:07.917
asked, “Why did you say no
to that reasonable adjustment?”

00:45:07.941 –> 00:45:09.948
You must be able
to defend that.

00:45:09.973 –> 00:45:14.475
Some requests may be
unreasonable just not doable

00:45:14.500 –> 00:45:19.499
just so expensive
it’s not feasible,

00:45:19.523 –> 00:45:22.955
or just not possible
within the role itself —

00:45:24.000 –> 00:45:26.467
that small. The majority
of adjustments should

00:45:26.500 –> 00:45:29.406
be reasonable and easily implemented.

00:45:30.233 –> 00:45:32.727
And not overly costly.

00:45:33.051 –> 00:45:36.442
A lot of them, there is no cost to
making reasonable adjustments.

00:45:36.467 –> 00:45:40.821
Sometimes there is cost. But think
about it in terms of somebody looks

00:45:40.845 –> 00:45:44.252
you in the eye and say,
“Why did you say no to that?”

00:45:44.350 –> 00:45:46.581
You have to have a
good reason and share

00:45:46.605 –> 00:45:48.663
the reason. If
you are saying no

00:45:48.687 –> 00:45:51.386
to requests to somebody,
be very clear about why

00:45:51.410 –> 00:45:54.108
you’re saying no to that
reasonable adjustment.

00:45:54.133 –> 00:45:57.319
Sometimes reasonable adjustments
challenge our typical ways of

00:45:57.333 –> 00:46:00.642
working, our typical ways of
thinking. That’s fine. Consider

00:46:00.667 –> 00:46:05.008
it and pop it in place and
keep the consistency going.

00:46:05.133 –> 00:46:07.642
And do you know what? This
day-to-day accommodation —

00:46:07.667 –> 00:46:09.228
somebody said, “You
know what? I’ve worked

00:46:09.253 –> 00:46:11.865
really hard on this think
about our ADHD person.

00:46:11.967 –> 00:46:14.072
Yeah. I work really
hard on this look and I

00:46:14.096 –> 00:46:16.200
just need some
downtime. We’ll just not focus

00:46:16.199 –> 00:46:18.809
on this for a while and
focus on this. Yeah. It’s just an

00:46:18.833 –> 00:46:22.099
accommodation in the moment.” If
you have an autistic person that says

00:46:22.900 –> 00:46:25.985
“Actually, do you know
what? Next couple of meetings,

00:46:26.009 –> 00:46:28.737
I’d rather not stand up
and do a presentation.”

00:46:28.762 –> 00:46:33.015
“Can — I think for now it’s
putting too much pressure on me.”

00:46:33.033 –> 00:46:35.242
“Socially, can I just
take some time out

00:46:35.266 –> 00:46:37.233
from doing that and
then when I’m feeling a

00:46:37.267 –> 00:46:40.308
bit more comfortable and
confident, a bit more secure,

00:46:40.333 –> 00:46:41.745
then I’ll go back to doing that.”

00:46:41.770 –> 00:46:43.728
That’s just a responsive
in the moment,

00:46:43.752 –> 00:46:45.509
“Yeah. I completely
understand.”

00:46:45.533 –> 00:46:49.786
The reasonable adjustments part though
is where the Equality Act comes in.

00:46:49.800 –> 00:46:51.694
So I just wanted to
separate those out

00:46:51.718 –> 00:46:53.613
but just because you
make for a changes

00:46:53.637 –> 00:46:55.675
and they’re a reasonable
adjustment doesn’t

00:46:55.700 –> 00:46:57.900
mean you can’t make
some improvements for all.

00:46:57.933 –> 00:47:01.425
and it doesn’t mean you might
have some on-the-spot requests

00:47:01.449 –> 00:47:04.940
for just general accommodations that
helps that person in that moment.

00:47:05.800 –> 00:47:09.408
It’s so hard to give a complete
list of reasonable adjustments.

00:47:09.433 –> 00:47:11.234
Right. So bear with
me as I go through this.

00:47:11.259 –> 00:47:15.063
Here are just some with the headline
statement. Again, I could do with

00:47:15.100 –> 00:47:16.200
flashing lights on this.

00:47:16.220 –> 00:47:19.282
Ensure you have a awareness
of individual needs.

00:47:19.433 –> 00:47:21.977
Do not prescribe. Do not assume.

00:47:22.060 –> 00:47:24.907
You know somebody’s autistic.
You know, somebody has ADHD,

00:47:24.932 –> 00:47:27.300
you know somebody’s
dyslexic, dyscalculic, etc.

00:47:27.300 –> 00:47:30.588
There are reasons they get that
diagnosis. So there will be certain

00:47:30.612 –> 00:47:33.685
things that help, but don’t make
an assumption of everything.

00:47:33.700 –> 00:47:37.299
Still talk to that individual about
that works for them best.

00:47:37.323 –> 00:47:38.685
Do you know — and
it might be to say

00:47:38.700 –> 00:47:41.300
that we want a
protected, quiet area that

00:47:41.300 –> 00:47:45.833
is quiet and that can be visually
quiet, sensory quiet.

00:47:45.858 –> 00:47:49.108
Calm, not doors banging
and noise going to just

00:47:49.133 –> 00:47:52.142
settle down that sensory
system for a while.

00:47:52.167 –> 00:47:56.142
Maybe able to access room bookings
have a little bit priority, maybe.

00:47:56.166 –> 00:47:59.579
you might be asked to change
the layout, lighting, spacing,

00:47:59.755 –> 00:48:05.008
flexible start/end times, guarantee a
desk or a seat if you’re hot-desking.

00:48:05.467 –> 00:48:08.349
If they want extended
periods of concentration,

00:48:08.467 –> 00:48:10.643
find space to do
that or go home.

00:48:10.667 –> 00:48:13.241
Regular and brief comfort
or movement breaking.

00:48:13.267 –> 00:48:16.442
Six-hour meetings will
break most people, OK?

00:48:16.467 –> 00:48:19.670
You might have a neurodivergent
person saying, “Please no meetings

00:48:19.694 –> 00:48:23.442
longer than an hour or can we
have a 10-minute break every hour?”

00:48:23.467 –> 00:48:27.149
Assistive technology such as
the wonderful TalkType, things like

00:48:27.167 –> 00:48:29.267
that that can make
a real difference.

00:48:29.300 –> 00:48:32.442
Assistive technology
doesn’t cure anything,

00:48:32.467 –> 00:48:35.033
but goodness me, it
makes a real difference

00:48:35.067 –> 00:48:37.426
in terms of accessibility
and people being

00:48:37.450 –> 00:48:39.808
able to show what’s
going on in their head.

00:48:39.833 –> 00:48:41.572
Get people work to their potential.

00:48:43.100 –> 00:48:45.075
Make changes to
recruitment selection

00:48:45.100 –> 00:48:46.900
and that’s a whole
day training in itself.

00:48:47.233 –> 00:48:49.779
Slides, study materials,
meeting notes in

00:48:49.803 –> 00:48:52.861
advance, flex on time
and locations of meeting.

00:48:52.900 –> 00:48:56.275
Somebody said, “You know
what? It’s really stressful

00:48:56.300 –> 00:48:59.242
getting in for 8:30 on a Monday
morning. I find the travel really

00:48:59.267 –> 00:49:01.467
overwhelming, but
I can get in for 10.”

00:49:01.529 –> 00:49:03.942
Can our meetings start
at 10.30 on Mondays?

00:49:03.967 –> 00:49:08.172
It’s fine. Flexibility around
deadlines — understand what is a

00:49:08.196 –> 00:49:11.244
true deadline. Ensure you
give people enough time.

00:49:11.269 –> 00:49:16.442
Those sensory aids, the ear
Defenders, screen glare protectors,

00:49:16.467 –> 00:49:19.400
something to fiddle with, somebody
sitting there with ear defenders on

00:49:19.400 –> 00:49:23.308
chewing like a
comforting chewy toy they

00:49:23.333 –> 00:49:25.908
are and fiddling with
something. That’s fine.

00:49:25.933 –> 00:49:27.400
That’s just their sensory needs

00:49:27.425 –> 00:49:31.563
coming out and that kind of
should be allowable in the workplace.

00:49:31.587 –> 00:49:35.704
And anything you promote
or push out to people, make sure it’s

00:49:35.800 –> 00:49:39.940
accessible, visually accessible,
and also suitable for assistive

00:49:39.964 –> 00:49:42.313
technology and
extra time for those

00:49:42.337 –> 00:49:45.242
timed assessments
and mandatory training.

00:49:45.267 –> 00:49:49.201
Role adjustments — 1001 more.

00:49:49.233 –> 00:49:51.566
I hate to say Google
it or whatever search

00:49:51.590 –> 00:49:54.267
engine you prefer.
There’s a lot out there and

00:49:54.300 –> 00:49:57.384
you can share your
expertise on this as well.

00:49:58.000 –> 00:50:01.408
So I want to say thank
you for listening at this point.

00:50:01.433 –> 00:50:04.742
My contact details are on.
Now, I am on social media,

00:50:04.767 –> 00:50:08.575
but social media and I tend to
argue and disagree quite a lot.

00:50:08.600 –> 00:50:11.400
So it’s always best to
find me. I do float around on

00:50:11.400 –> 00:50:15.306
Facebook as Helen Eaton
– Autism & Neurodiversity.

00:50:16.067 –> 00:50:18.342
So thank you for attending.
Thank you for listening

00:50:18.367 –> 00:50:22.952
and thank you for showing your interest. A
Whistle-stop to high-level on some of that stuff.

00:50:22.967 –> 00:50:26.093
But hopefully you’re
starting to think about what

00:50:26.117 –> 00:50:29.242
you can do differently
and why you should do it.

00:50:29.267 –> 00:50:32.487
And my final request
before I hand over to Rich is

00:50:32.500 –> 00:50:36.700
to say what adjustments do
you make, have made, could

00:50:36.699 –> 00:50:42.034
make in the future? Pop those in chat because
that’s a great way of recording that.

00:50:42.067 –> 00:50:45.667
So, thank you so much for
your time and for listening today.

00:50:45.862 –> 00:50:48.390
And, Rich, if I go back to you.

00:50:48.400 –> 00:50:50.893
Thanks so much,
Helen. That was fantastic.

00:50:50.917 –> 00:50:53.410
I’m sure everyone
will agree. And, yeah.

00:50:53.433 –> 00:50:57.850
I’m sure they are because
the chat’s been pretty non-stop.

00:50:57.867 –> 00:51:03.142
So, yeah. Thanks so much and
there’s a few questions coming in,

00:51:03.167 –> 00:51:04.395
so we’ll try and answer them.

00:51:04.420 –> 00:51:06.438
We don’t always get through
every question, but we’ll

00:51:06.462 –> 00:51:08.775
try and answer them
afterwards if we don’t get to it.

00:51:08.800 –> 00:51:12.808
If you can use the
Q&A section, it’s really

00:51:12.833 –> 00:51:15.233
helpful just to kind
of organise questions.

00:51:15.267 –> 00:51:18.483
So I’ll start firing
away if that’s OK.

00:51:18.500 –> 00:51:22.342
So Helen, Lucy asks, “You
mentioned some employers

00:51:22.367 –> 00:51:25.367
may accept a working
diagnosis, but some may

00:51:25.400 –> 00:51:29.420
stipulate they need a formal diagnosis.
How does that play out legally?

00:51:32.008 –> 00:51:34.008
Oh Helen, you’re muted.

00:51:34.485 –> 00:51:37.442
I am, I should know
this by now, shouldn’t I?

00:51:37.467 –> 00:51:39.800
I’ve done this before.
It’s not my first rodeo.

00:51:40.267 –> 00:51:43.249
Yes, it’s complicated
is what I wanted to say.

00:51:44.500 –> 00:51:47.875
There are cases where
an employer — well, the

00:51:47.900 –> 00:51:49.667
tribunal found the employer
should have recognised

00:51:49.699 –> 00:51:53.975
the person’s distress, taken it
seriously, and had conversations around

00:51:54.000 –> 00:51:57.333
support and that person went on
to discover they were autistic.

00:51:58.033 –> 00:52:02.005
Generally, if you have a diagnosis,
there’s absolute clarity there.

00:52:02.067 –> 00:52:05.735
Some employers do except
working diagnosis and, actually, in a

00:52:05.767 –> 00:52:08.972
tribunal if you have done your
best and you’ve worked with them

00:52:08.996 –> 00:52:12.123
with a working diagnosis, and
recognise that somebody is really

00:52:12.199 –> 00:52:14.701
struggling or we seeking
to get a diagnosis,

00:52:14.725 –> 00:52:17.224
I think that puts you in
a really strong position,

00:52:17.248 –> 00:52:19.389
but it is very much
an employer’s choice.

00:52:20.900 –> 00:52:23.396
But you should do the
best by your employee.

00:52:23.420 –> 00:52:25.508
So it’s a grey and
developing area.

00:52:25.533 –> 00:52:27.462
I would always err
on the side of caution.

00:52:28.400 –> 00:52:31.688
You don’t suddenly acquire ADHD.
You don’t suddenly acquire dyslexia.

00:52:31.712 –> 00:52:33.867
That person really needs
to have had these

00:52:33.891 –> 00:52:36.046
traits, these differences
throughout their life.

00:52:36.100 –> 00:52:38.288
And if those are there and
they’re demonstrating day

00:52:38.312 –> 00:52:41.895
in day out at work, I would kind of
respect that as a working diagnosis.

00:52:42.667 –> 00:52:47.078
Perfect. Thank you very much,
Helen. That’s really helpful.

00:52:47.102 –> 00:52:50.042
Another question here which is,

00:52:50.067 –> 00:52:53.313
“Regarding reasonable adjustments,
isn’t a reasonable adjustment

00:52:53.337 –> 00:52:56.583
subjective to the employer or
the organisation’s interpretation?

00:52:56.608 –> 00:53:00.775
And how can you —
what would you advise

00:53:00.800 –> 00:53:03.333
if what’s been
offered isn’t sufficient?”

00:53:04.600 –> 00:53:07.693
OK. So if we think about why we
put a reason adjustment in place,

00:53:07.733 –> 00:53:12.250
so this thing that I need to do
is an expected part of my job role.

00:53:12.276 –> 00:53:13.578
That’s what I’m
contracted to do.

00:53:13.667 –> 00:53:16.355
But without an adjustment,
without assistive tech

00:53:16.379 –> 00:53:18.890
or perhaps some changes to
the way things are happening

00:53:18.900 –> 00:53:21.771
or some accessibility
needs I can’t do that.

00:53:21.800 –> 00:53:25.130
Well, then becomes it reasonable
to put that in place, I think.

00:53:25.154 –> 00:53:29.408
Reasonable, it’s not quantifiable.

00:53:29.433 –> 00:53:33.025
Yes, it may be subjective. But if
an employer puts some reasonable

00:53:33.049 –> 00:53:36.475
adjustments in place that
don’t meet that individual’s needs,

00:53:36.500 –> 00:53:38.125
then they’re not appropriate.

00:53:38.133 –> 00:53:42.574
So it’s about looking at the individual
and putting needs in place that are

00:53:42.599 –> 00:53:45.359
suitable, that remove
barriers, and allow them to

00:53:45.383 –> 00:53:48.445
access what everyone
else is accessing ultimately.

00:53:49.300 –> 00:53:50.967
Because if you’re arguing over

00:53:51.000 –> 00:53:54.711
what’s reasonable and that person isn’t
able to do their job or do their best,

00:53:54.733 –> 00:53:58.253
then that employer is not
being fair to them, I think.

00:53:58.300 –> 00:54:00.701
So under law, you
have to think about that.

00:54:00.867 –> 00:54:04.971
Absolutely. Katherine’s got an interesting
question here, which is

00:54:05.000 –> 00:54:08.775
“Is the law different or the same
for universities compared to the

00:54:08.800 –> 00:54:11.084
workplace?” I don’t know if you
if you know the difference there.

00:54:11.100 –> 00:54:12.985
It should — it’s the same.

00:54:13.000 –> 00:54:16.075
I think there’s sometimes
different language when

00:54:16.099 –> 00:54:20.342
you look at the government
websites around this,

00:54:20.367 –> 00:54:22.875
look at — read the Equality
Act and reasonable adjustments.

00:54:22.900 –> 00:54:24.886
There can be different
examples for universities,

00:54:24.900 –> 00:54:27.074
but the reasonable
adjustment actually applies

00:54:27.100 –> 00:54:29.967
in education, in public
spaces, in the workplace.

00:54:30.928 –> 00:54:33.480
But what you do might
be different.

00:54:33.800 –> 00:54:37.152
Right. That’s really, really
helpful. And, yeah.

00:54:37.167 –> 00:54:42.708
Lots of people saying thanks and quite
a lot in the in the chat as well.

00:54:42.733 –> 00:54:44.704
So what we’re going to do is
we’re going to scour through

00:54:44.733 –> 00:54:48.636
the chat and gather
questions together to answer.

00:54:48.661 –> 00:54:52.742
And we’ll try and do that sort of
asynchronously because we often

00:54:52.767 –> 00:54:56.308
don’t manage to get through all of
them at the end of these sessions.

00:54:56.333 –> 00:54:58.732
And I know there was a
a lot of a lot of questions

00:54:58.756 –> 00:55:00.207
coming in through
the through the chat.

00:55:00.232 –> 00:55:04.708
So what we will do
is we’ll wrap up there

00:55:04.733 –> 00:55:07.577
and make sure people
can get off on time.

00:55:07.602 –> 00:55:12.042
So, yeah. All I want to say is a
massive thank you, first of all, to Helen.

00:55:12.067 –> 00:55:14.526
Thank you for coming
along and sharing

00:55:14.550 –> 00:55:17.008
all that information
that you’ve shared.

00:55:17.033 –> 00:55:19.046
It’s been incredibly
helpful. And as you can see

00:55:19.070 –> 00:55:21.342
from the chat, that it’s
been very well-received.

00:55:21.367 –> 00:55:26.462
So thank you so much. And thank
you to everybody for participating.

00:55:26.500 –> 00:55:29.067
Month-on-month, our
community’s growing

00:55:29.099 –> 00:55:30.837
and it’s fantastic to see.

00:55:30.867 –> 00:55:33.539
And what’s particularly
brilliant is people sharing

00:55:33.563 –> 00:55:35.967
their own experiences
and views in the chat.

00:55:36.367 –> 00:55:39.122
Yeah. It’s really nice that we’ve
managed to kind of foster that

00:55:39.146 –> 00:55:41.638
community and a space in
order to do that.

00:55:41.667 –> 00:55:45.472
So thank you everybody for coming
along and taking the time to

00:55:45.496 –> 00:55:49.300
learn about something and discuss
something different and

00:55:49.300 –> 00:55:51.821
hopefully something
that benefits lots more

00:55:51.845 –> 00:55:54.789
people than just in our
group and our community.

00:55:54.800 –> 00:56:02.908
So you will be getting a CPD certificate. So
after this webinar, you’ll be sent a survey link.

00:56:02.933 –> 00:56:04.874
If you can fill that
out. We’ll ask if you

00:56:04.900 –> 00:56:07.367
want to see a CPD certificate
and we’ll send one over.

00:56:07.377 –> 00:56:09.744
So if you do, then
look out for that link.

00:56:09.767 –> 00:56:12.921
As we’ve mentioned — and it’s
been asked a few times —

00:56:12.933 –> 00:56:18.800
we have recorded this. So you’ll
be getting an email, with today’s

00:56:18.800 –> 00:56:22.095
recording, the transcript,
as well as slides as well.

00:56:22.133 –> 00:56:23.885
So all of that will
be provided to you

00:56:23.909 –> 00:56:27.542
and it will also be up on socials
as well in the next day or so.

00:56:28.967 –> 00:56:31.679
As I mentioned, we run one
of these webinars every month,

00:56:31.703 –> 00:56:36.808
and our next one is the 9th
of May, which is a Thursday.

00:56:36.833 –> 00:56:40.507
So if you would like to
come along to that,

00:56:40.532 –> 00:56:46.942
Danielle Cudjoe-Michalski is talking
about navigating neurodiversity,

00:56:47.233 –> 00:56:50.467
talking about her journey
in the corporate world,

00:56:50.506 –> 00:56:52.301
which is going to be fantastic.

00:56:52.326 –> 00:56:57.197
So, again, eyes peeled for your
inbox for information regarding that.

00:56:57.233 –> 00:57:04.042
And also it will be on socials.
So I think that is it for today.

00:57:04.067 –> 00:57:09.175
Thank you everybody for
for joining us and for participating

00:57:09.200 –> 00:57:13.067
and yeah, we’ll let you get back
to your afternoon wherever you are.

00:57:13.267 –> 00:57:13.919
Thanks so much.